For years there has been a lack of "ballplayers/ footballers" in the Hull team.Buying Long was a big step in the right direction, but he cannot do it all alone. At St. Helens he was surrounded by footballers. Agar seems obsessed with barging down the middle, trying to smash opposition into submission, but you need something else against modern defences.
In order to accommodate all our second rowers, Fitzgibbon is played at loose forward. He is a world class forward who has to play, but a natural loose forward with creative handling skills he is not,e.g. he rarely passes the ball! Lauaki, who creates more problems than he solves, must be dropped, and the OBVIOUS choice at loose forward has to be Whiting, young Super League player of the year in 2005, who is wasted filling in here there and everywhere away from the centre of the action. He has the class, is one of our few natural footballers, and is the best reader of a game in the club. With Whiting,Long, and Horne in the middle we might actually create something.
We still need to deepen our lines of attack, like most other good sides. We are far too flat, often chaotic, and the ball just cannot get to the wings, who, given enough good ball, would score lots of tries.
For those of you who think that the coach is not THAT important, look at how Brown, Maguire, and Millward have transformed Hudd, Wigan, and Leigh. At the end of last season, Leigh were heading towards Championship 1, and at the start of this season had their entire front row injured - look where they are now. Wigan have the same squad as last year!
Agar, your time is running out!
Tonyanl
Quotetonyanl="tonyanl"For years there has been a lack of "ballplayers/ footballers" in the Hull team.Buying Long was a big step in the right direction, but he cannot do it all alone. At St. Helens he was surrounded by footballers. Agar seems obsessed with barging down the middle, trying to smash opposition into submission, but you need something else against modern defences.
In order to accommodate all our second rowers, Fitzgibbon is played at loose forward. He is a world class forward who has to play, but a natural loose forward with creative handling skills he is not,e.g. he rarely passes the ball! Lauaki, who creates more problems than he solves, must be dropped, and the OBVIOUS choice at loose forward has to be Whiting, young Super League player of the year in 2005, who is wasted filling in here there and everywhere away from the centre of the action. He has the class, is one of our few natural footballers, and is the best reader of a game in the club. With Whiting,Long, and Horne in the middle we might actually create something.
We still need to deepen our lines of attack, like most other good sides. We are far too flat, often chaotic, and the ball just cannot get to the wings, who, given enough good ball, would score lots of tries.
For those of you who think that the coach is not THAT important, look at how Brown, Maguire, and Millward have transformed Hudd, Wigan, and Leigh. At the end of last season, Leigh were heading towards Championship 1, and at the start of this season had their entire front row injured - look where they are now. Wigan have the same squad as last year!
Agar, your time is running out!
Tonyanl'"
All good teams barge down the middle to gain field position and then move the ball out wide. Watch the Australia versus New Zealand match from the 4 nations that everyone said was the best they'd seen in years and you will see exactly that - two teams battering up the middle for 80 minutes. Also, battering with the forwards down the middle is a fine art - watch who they target when they take the ball up because those people most often targeted will be the tired ones at the end of the game who start to miss tackles, give pens away etc. Another thing to remember is that the conditions (soft underfoot, wet rugby ball etc) are not that conducive to free-flowing rugby and players will come up with more errors. Each ball-handling error in your own half means defending 6 tackles earlier than expected and not in the preferred field position. As for Whiting at Loose Man, whilst many of us woud like to see a ball-playing 13 there are many, many successful teams that use a powerhouse like Fitz - it's an accepted alternative. Wigan and Huddersfield have not won anything yet so son't be so sure they'll cope as the season progresses. As for Lauaki - I have to agree, I'd like to see him dropped because of poor form so that he knows his place is not guaranteed just because he's one of our big names. In terms of the deeper attack, I think Wigan showed against us that the flat-line approach can be very effective as well when shifting the ball quickly out wide. I think, as usual, the plays, tactics etc that are deployed depend upon the stage of the game, the state of the pitch, the opportunities as they arise and the overall match strategy.
I think is one of the best posts i've seen for a while and now it coincides with Agars new deal. So, it looks like our idea of playing without any ball handlers will continue then!
I agree entirely about Whiting. People forget he was young plyer of the year.
On the subject of playing 13 as a pivot rather than effectively another second rower, we won the challege cup with three pivots, Horne, Brough in the halfs and some other player whose name I can't remember but was more of a half than a forward playing at thirteen.
Interestingly, in the playoffs, we beat Wire playing thi formation, then tried to match Bradford's forwards by playing only two pivots when we went there and got hammered (although people often forget we played with 12 men when they criticize Kear for that game, the real criticism should have been leaving Broughy out after he'd run Wire ragged the week before).
It was sharpe when he came in who stated publicly that one of the changes he wanted to make was playing with two pivots. It worked for a while, but really signalled the beginning of a decline into relying on forwards and the ball down the middle which seems to have become a bit endemic.
Maybe Agar should try whiting at 13 against some of the teams with smaller packs in the first instance and see how he goes. Another thing about Rich W at 13 is that he is a pretty tough tackler so I don't think we'd lose out too much, he's got all the aggression of anyone whose come out of post-office road.
Totally agree, we're still left with this safety first mentality aren't we. The present system may see us sneak into 6/7/8th position but we need something extra to re-establish ourselves as a top 4 club. Does Agar simply not have the confidence in his own ability to actually try and manufacture something? Whatever the reason, it beggars belief he has been offered 2 more years at this exact time.
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