Telly was poop again, last night, so I mused over the world's issues, with a glass of supermarket Islay.

Kim Jong Un and Trump
Theresa May's sore throat
How Stock/Aitken/Waterman have never appeared in court over crimes against music, and most importantly....

ARE WE TOUGH ENOUGH?

Not physically, but mentally.

Since I started watching in late 79, we've had some great sides/players, but only for relatively short periods.
The Kelly,Bevan,Potter,Hesford, Eccles side of the very early 80's, petered out.

Then there's the mid 80's Peter Higham buys of Boyd, Tamati,Blake, Gregory, Johnson, along with what was already there Gregory, Roberts etc.

Then there was the Welsh influx of Phillips,Ellis,Bateman,Davies eventually gelling with the youth of Harris, Hilton, Roper, Wainwright.

The Cullen/Moran spending years which won us nowt, but paved the way for Smith's successes.

The Peter Deakin era

As you can see, sides which won stuff/capable of winning stuff, but nothing sustained. A bit like pushing a boulder up a hill, but going straight down the other side, a year or two later.

Contrast this to
Wigan, nigh on 30 years of almost continued succes (bar Millward,Noble)
Saints, after a decade of being bridesmaids, the brought in McRea, and really haven't looked back,since
Bradford's decade of dominance
and Leeds, spent money like it was going out of fashion throughout the 80' to the late 90's, then were involved in the first GF, and, like Saints,,haven't looked back since.

We just don't seem to have the wear with all, to
keep being successful
create and adapt a winning side a la Ferguson with United, Wenger with Arsenal etc.

We need to get tougher, and get a sustained winning attitude, and a never say die mentality. I hope the new guy has this.

Agree with all that except the bit about the supermarket Islay. Sort it out, remember when Smith stopped buying proper quality and lost interest?

Supermarket Islay =£18 and is bloody good
Laphroaig =£30+
you do the maths.

back on thread. I see your point, but, Wire constantly have the money to shop at Harrods, but chouse to do their buying at Lidl

I thought Lidl was where you got bargains? Thats where I would want Warrington to be shopping, not spending six figure sums on fragile but useless space fillers.

But we don't do bargains. Just expensive e.g. Westerman Lineham.Asotasi
Our bargains are from the "whoops" shelf at 7pm, when no one else wants them.

But we were at least able to get a good sell on price for Westerman on ebay

It's more about what we do when we achieve success we are so happy for that one success.

We rested on our laurels after winning the cc assuming that the gf would follow. Following our first defeat to Wigan in a gf changes should have been made the clubs mentioned would have and have made changes fast to maintain success when at the time seemed questionable did Wigan not replace someone after they had won the gf ???

That's the difference for me and the players at those clubs know that prolonged failure will not be accepted and that if they do not perform they will be replace, the same cannot be said here players have become complacent and secure in their job.

We replaced Carvell, Wood, Hicks, Anderson to name four off the top of my head. Many fans criticised that, especially Carvell and Wood who went on to fantastic careers at their next clubs (I assume so anyway).

We made major changes after that first Grand Final defeat to Wigan.

Morley, Carvell, Briers, Hodgson, Cooper all left after that defeat and over the next year we moved on Riley, Wood and Willie Poching as assistant coach. In came Asotasi, England, Russell, Penny and Agar as assistant coach.

I wonder if Cas will be as radical in their response to defeat.

Morley carvel and briers were not let go by choice perse Morley wanted to end at Salford cArvell was done and briers was forced to retire cooper had agreed a move prior to the season ending so hardly like the club had a lot of input on those players leaving.

Cas were missing big game players tonight Ones that have played in and won big games and that can handle the pressure and their calmness will run off on rest of team.

Whilst Leeds May lose maguire they have younger players who have won one ore two gfs already so that experience is always there within the team. It will take something special for a team to beat Leeds saints or Wigan in a gf irrespective of the league position or how they have played all season as cas and ourselves have experienced first hand!!

I think pre 2004 we didn't have the money to compete with Wigan, Saints, Leeds and so it was unrealistic for the club governance to set high ambitions. That is not the case now.

But with those clubs it's like success is ingrained in their culture and ethos. You just know that they will be contenders every season, in a way that Wire are not.

I think it's all about the aims and expectations set by the clubs leader who has the balls to carry through on it with selection of coach, backing for quality players, decisive action.

McManus sacked Cunningham early as he wasn't meeting the level required. Saints had a disappointing season by their standards but made the playoffs and 1 point off the final.

Hetherington went public with a "sort it out by end of March or else" letter after the drubbing at Castleford. Another GF win.

By Tony Smiths own admission, Simon Moran was "too loyal". We could all see the problems coming with poor player quality and squad depletion for a while. The attacking flair was gone and we started to concede more and more. Then we get players dropped for "attitude", players out of position, the camp fractures, and players become undroppable. By this time the game is up you can see on the pitch that the players are not putting it in. Even the coach is disillusioned.

The closest comparative club to Warrington is Saints. In the SL Era, played in a poor stadium, not blessed with bags of money or massively high gate receipts nor do they have a youth setup like Leeds or Wigan. But what they did have was the will to be the best.

The winning attitude is set at the top and filters down.

Those teams haven't all had plain sailing consistency, they've made mistakes of their own that provide lessons for us.

Leeds are the best example to follow, but they started from a position of similar frustrations to us. Relatively well funded, had some big name players but didn't deliver the trophies: look at the Leeds story through the 80s and 90s. Until 96 they were in the shadow of Wigan like everyone else, but it must have rankled with them when Bradford and Saints moved ahead of them in the early days of Super League. I think they had a watershed point in 2001 when the latest attempt to import success through big names in Clyde and Mullins had failed and they lost Iestyn Harris who the team was built around. After that they hit the recipe for sustained success. The constant factor is Gary Hetherington. Do we have a CEO in Karl Fitzpatrick who is going to run the club like GH does Leeds?

Saints were great for a decade or so but after Daniel Anderson left they have accepted a lower level. They have had 5 coaches since: Potter, Simmons, Brown, Cunningham and Holbrook, and won one trophy, whereas we have won 3 in that time. Sure its a Grand Final and the one we want, but Wigan had a man sent off at the start of that game. If that had happened in one of their finals with us instead, it would probably have been us with a GF win and Saints would have lost their last 6 GFs. I know that's a bit "if my auntie had balls she'd be my uncle" but sometimes you have to look at those incidents of luck rather than saying Saints have some ingrained mentality that we don't....if they had such a great mentality they wouldn't have such a losing record in GFs.

Wigan went through a decade from 1999 to 2009 where they just won one Challenge Cup, which in Wigan terms is a very barren spell. They had the money to bring in whoever they wanted: Renouf, M Johns, Dallas, Lam, Furner, Barrett plus they had a lot of the better British of the time like Farrell, Radlinski, Newton, O'Connor and still they could never match Bradford, Saints or Leeds when it counted. Their success since has been with far less glamorous players. They have a self-perpetuating culture like Leeds do where young players come in to the side and fit in to the attitude and way they play from the start, they can lose senior players and still be resilient.